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Thread: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30


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0ff

Posts: 8
Registered: 2/18/14
Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Feb 18, 2014 8:06 PM
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Hello everybody!

I don't want to seem rude by not having introduced myself before, so let me please quickly say a word or two about me.
I'm a pretty young fellow that fell in love with an abandoned SE/30 quite some time ago. I cleaned it, recapped it, gave it new ram, hdd and finally a clean and programmable rom (courtesy of the awesome work of dougg3 and bbraun - thanks so much, you guys just rock!). But then it went quite slow, I wanted to actually use the SE/30 for some fun stuff as in games and vintage software, but the only way to get sw onto him, was to slowly put it onto fdds and hope for the best.
After months of watching ebay and finally acquiring a working ethernet card I now have a working setup that is able to go online and access a local repository of 12gb of software (volume68k, you probably know it) - it's just a cheap TP-Link router + USB + openWRT working as an AFP Server.

So enough with the intro, because while all this is great and also working like a charm, there's one last thing I'd like to add to this SE/30: Speed.
That's why I got my hands on a Daystar Turbo 040 + the matching IIsi PDS-Adapter, hoping this would be at least a little bit of plug and play.
It was not - and now here I am a little disappointed yet not ready to give it up and so I reach out to you - craving for help :)

So where I'm at?
I have the Turbo plugged into the Adapter that's plugged into the Mainboard. When trying to boot this combo up, all I get is vertical stripes.

What did I try?
  • Stock SE/30 ROM with stock 8mb ram, no hdd, no fdd
  • Custom ROM SIMM w/ stock SE/30 ROM with stock 8mb ram, no hdd, no fdd
  • Custom ROM SIMM w/ custom ROM Image with stock 8mb ram, no hdd, no fdd
  • Custom ROM SIMM w/ custom ROM Image with 80mb ram, no hdd, no fdd
  • Removing the Cache-Expansion from the Turbo
  • all of the above with the Asante Ethernet Card plugged into the PDS-Slot of the Adapter
  • all of the above (w/ and w/o ethernet) with another SE/30 main board with a socketed cpu
  • running around the whole setup 3 times left way and praying

None of this worked. I always get the same result: Vertical stripes. No Bootup Chime. No Happy Mac.

So now what do I want from you?
I'd like to hear from you what I could try now - from running right way to connecting a scope to measuring single lines with a logic analyzer.
I'm open for everything and I'd love to get this setup up and running, but I just am out of ideas on what to try.
My guess would be that the Turbo somehow prevents whole system from booting, so I could imagine something's wrong with the Crystal on the card, but what do I know? :-)
I attached images of my Turbo because it looks much different from the one on your wiki (https://mac68k.info/wiki/display/mac68k/DayStar+Turbo+040+-+030+PDS+Adapters). The adapter seems to have an identical layout but the right chip on the front is populated on mine.

So, if you feel eager to try and help me, your support would be much appreciated!
Thank you in advance and have a very great day!

Best regards,
Fabian
tt


Posts: 144
Registered: 8/25/12
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Feb 27, 2014 8:59 PM   in response to: 0ff in response to: 0ff
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Welcome to the Forum =)

I am an SE/30 aficionado, so I'll try to help. One thing I noticed about the custom ROM SIMM is it is a little thinner, so contact could be an issue inside the SIMM socket. But it looks like you tried the stock ROM, which should work too. That adapter photo is of mine and I see yours is different. Can you post a plain photo of the adapter? Did you try playing with the RAM configurations? If you had a IIsi, you can try it in there too. Are you using the same PSU and analog board between the two motherboards?
0ff

Posts: 8
Registered: 2/18/14
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 5, 2014 5:24 PM   in response to: tt in response to: tt
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Hey tt,

thanks for your response! I have to admit I was checking for replies everyday but then I figured I'd get an email, so sorry for my late response!

In fact, I did run into the problem you mentioned, that the replacement ROMs were a bit too thin, but I actually added a bit of solder to every pad, so that they connect perfectly with the board - so no problems here.

As per your request I did take photos of the adapter and attached them here, maybe you can spot a difference?

My last resort is now to connect the adapter + power cache "through" the Asante Network Card, maybe that might help. I'll keep you posted as soon as I get the required angled PDS-Adaptors. Unfortunately I don't have access to any other Classic Mac here, except a different SE 30 that shows the very same behavior.
PSU and analog boards don't seem to matter either, same thing in both SE 30s.
What I find odd is, that this is the exact same pattern I get when I remove the ROM entirely, so it seems to me that the power cache somehow prevents the system from accessing the ROM, do you have any thoughts on that?
tt


Posts: 144
Registered: 8/25/12
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 5, 2014 11:23 PM   in response to: 0ff in response to: 0ff
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About the photo, I meant post one of the board by itself and face-on to see the differences.

I see you tried it with the adapter and without the Turbo installed and still got the stripes. If that is correct, It does sound like having the adapter board installed is making the logic board video behave as if there is no ROM functioning, or it is hanging. I don't know if that would normally happen with known good hardware if you were to install a IIsi adapter with no accelerator. So I am guessing either this IIsi adapter might be incompatible or the Turbo is not functioning properly. One thing you could try is to pop out the Turbo ROM and reseat it to see if maybe there's a contact issue. I am not sure when I can get to it, but I could try my setup without the accelerator to see what happens. I would think it shouldn't interfere with the system though.

P.S. You can set email notifications in your "Your Watches" settings.
0ff

Posts: 8
Registered: 2/18/14
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 6, 2014 4:13 AM   in response to: tt in response to: tt
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Sorry about the photo, but I'm still not sure what exactly you want me to post?

Regarding the IIsi adapter: Actually, now that you point it out, I can see that my initial post was a bit unclear on that. In fact, plugging only the IIsi Adapter into the SE 30 did not cause any problems at all. Also, the Asante worked like a charm when plugged into the "PDS"-Slot of the IIsi Adapter, so I figure that the Adapter itself should be fine.

As for the Turbo ROM - I will try that, thank you!

PS: Yeah, I did that before but forgot to check that I want an email notification. Now it works like a charm :-)
0ff

Posts: 8
Registered: 2/18/14
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 6, 2014 6:32 PM   in response to: 0ff in response to: 0ff
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Okay, so I went back to testing and I tried 2 new things today: One was to plug in the IIsi Adapter via a right-angle PDS-Adapter, thus creating this setup: http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/images/040et_stack.gif

The only problem is, that this didn't change anything.

I also tried removing the Turbo ROM and it did, in fact, have one pin that looked a bit odd. But this was due to the corresponding pin in the socket being a bit "worn out"(?) and thus was not a problem after all.

I'm open to anything right now, really. I think I tried all that I could do, but it'd be great if you had any other suggestions.

Thanks in advance!
tt


Posts: 144
Registered: 8/25/12
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 11, 2014 12:58 AM   in response to: 0ff in response to: 0ff
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To clarify, you removed the Turbo ROM and it did the same thing, and you think a pin on the socket is suspect?
0ff

Posts: 8
Registered: 2/18/14
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 11, 2014 4:19 AM   in response to: tt in response to: tt
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Yes, I removed the Turbo ROM and it did exactly the same thing.
While removing the ROM I saw a suspicious pin, but then I saw that the pin inside the socket was also bent that way, so now I don't think it's the pin anymore.
Complexhvac

Posts: 5
Registered: 3/25/13
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 11, 2014 9:25 AM   in response to: 0ff in response to: 0ff
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Hello off,

I also have had many issues relating to the symptoms you have experienced, maybe you might try removing the PRAM Battery, this has worked multiple times when viewing SIMASIMAC Screen remnants. Evidently, at least in my experiences, totally clearing the PRAM satisfied the DayStar 040, bringing it back to life.

For what it's worth, many of us Classic Mac enthusiasts, operate our Gems with the PRAM Battery removed, leaving no vulnerabilities relating to leakage that can cause permanent damage. I have successfully used the Control Panel named ( PRAM Auto-Restore ) for many years now, with no regrets or worries. This Control Panel enables us to save the current copy of our PRAM and reload its settings when we reboot our Classic Macs each new day we start up, with no battery installed!

I truly hope you get the results your'e seeking, many of the memories we cherish, continue to be visited vicariously through our Classic Macs each & every time we Reboot!

The best of luck,

Michael
tt


Posts: 144
Registered: 8/25/12
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 11, 2014 1:06 PM   in response to: 0ff in response to: 0ff
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Hmm, well if the Turbo ROM isn't properly making contact, I could see that being an issue. Another option to try would be to upgrade the Turbo ROM PLCC chip since your Turbo is an early version with the separate cache card.

Zapping the PRAM is good advice and worth a shot... I am torn about the battery. Right now I am running a IIci and it gets annoying to change the monitor settings every time. I think it also slows the initial boot down. Maybe I'll be able to find that PRAM control panel to save some time =)
Complexhvac

Posts: 5
Registered: 3/25/13
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 12, 2014 12:18 PM   in response to: tt in response to: tt
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Hello everyone,

TT makes a very good point relating to the upgrading of the 040 ROM Chip replacement, considering the age of the DayStar Turbo 040 Accelerator. It might be advantageous to contact the long standing & very helpful gentleman that goes by the Screen name of Trag, an extremely well educated & well versed Engineer. He has supplied many of our specialty needs here & over at the 68k MLA Site for a very affordable cost base. He may have a few Pre Flashed Turbo 040 ROMS still available, his offering happens to be the latest ROM Version created from Daystar Digital. Feel free to check him out, he's a great individual!

I'm hoping that it's appropriate to share with my fellow Enthusiasts, not knowing the specific ruling here at Mac68k. Would it be acceptable to post the Control Panel ( PRAM Auto-Restore ) on this site? If not, what method is best.
0ff

Posts: 8
Registered: 2/18/14
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 12, 2014 1:22 PM   in response to: Complexhvac in response to: Complexhvac
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Hey Michael,

thanks for your suggestion, I will go ahead and try the setup without a battery installed. I think the bat is quite new actually, I replaced it just months ago while recapping the board. But yeah, removing it completely seems like a great advice regarding future storage times. Thanks for that one, I wouldn't have though of it, to be honest.

tt - Yeah, I thought so, too (as to upgrading the ROM). In fact I already ordered what I need for doing that, but I have to wait for the tools to arrive and that will probably take a month or so.

I see you both seem to agree on that I should upgrade, I will totally try that when I have the tools available. Luckily trag shared the binaries of the 4.1.1 ROM, so I will flash that onto a matching chip and try again.
Any ideas if it's possible to get version of that ROM without actually reading the ROM? (Sounds impossible to me, but maybe one can tell by the label on the chip or something).

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help so far! I will keep you posted on any progress!
tt


Posts: 144
Registered: 8/25/12
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 12, 2014 1:38 PM   in response to: Complexhvac in response to: Complexhvac
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Yeah, it's worth a shot...

Based on the label on your ROM, you have version 3.x

3033----Ver.4.11
2983----Ver.4.01
297x----Ver.3.x
292x----Ver.2.x
24xx----Ver.1.X

I have no idea what the changes were between versions. Let us know how it goes. I'd like to be able to make my own too. =)
0ff

Posts: 8
Registered: 2/18/14
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 12, 2014 1:40 PM   in response to: tt in response to: tt
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Oh wow, that is awesome info! Where did you get this table?

When I get my programmer, I can dump my version and send it to you, tt.
Maybe you can find the difference then :-)
tt


Posts: 144
Registered: 8/25/12
Re: Troubleshooting Turbo 040 + IIsi Adapter in SE/30
Posted: Mar 12, 2014 1:43 PM   in response to: Complexhvac in response to: Complexhvac
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Complexhvac, you can post a link here. I am pretty sure that control panel is shareware.

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